Wikipedy:Oerlisside

Ut Wikipedy
(Trochferwiisd fan Wikipedy:Oerlis side)


Oerlisside
Dizze side is bedoeld foar oerlis, fragen en opmerkings oer it Wikipedy-projekt. Wy hawwe ek in gasteboek foar ús gasten en in kommentaarside foar algemiene fragen oer de Wikipedy.
Nuvola apps edu languages.png

De Mienskipside is der foar meidoggers, en minsken dy't dat wurde wolle.
Wolkom yn de kroech fan de Fryske Wikipedia
Hjir kin men mei elkoar prate oer alles oangeande de Wikipedia, mar ek gewoan babbelje oer oare dingen. Foar ferhite diskusjes kin men it bêste in privee-oerlis sykje fia IRC, privee-email of messengerservices.

Betink foaral rêstich te bliuwen wannear't it der hyt oan ta giet en kom persoanlike oanfallen te foaren; besjoch ek de Wikiketteside. As jo yn in ferhyt debat binne mei ien en jo komme der net út, nim dan kontakt op mei in pear neutrale Wikipedianen om te middeljen.

Welcome, willkommen, bienvenue, etc.
This is the dicussion page (tavern or village pump to some) of the Frisian Wikipedia. Feel free to ask any questions you would like to ask. Please do not use bad language here, if you are in a heated debate with someone please go to IRC, use private mail, or resort to chat.
De Fryske Wikipedy hat op it stuit
Pompebled.svg 49.907 siden Pompebled.svg 1.098.677 bewurkings Pompebled.svg 44.322 registrearre brûkers Pompebled.svg 81 warbere meidoggers Pompebled.svg 8 behearders Pompebled.svg


20-jarig bestaan Wikipedy[boarne bewurkje]

Dag,

Ik ben Martijn van Dijk van de Leeuwarder Courant, kan ik met een van de beheerders in contact komen over het 20-jarig bestaan van Wikipedy?

Mijn contactgegevens: martijn.van.dijk (apenstaartje) mediahuisnoord.nl.

mei freonlike groetnis,

Martijn Sinenwille (oerlis) 30 aug 2022, 17.09 (CEST)Beäntwurdzje[beäntwurdzje]

@Kening Aldgilles, Wutsje, Ieneach fan 'e Esk, Kneppelfreed, Mysha, FreyaSport, en RomkeHoekstra: en oaren. Wat sille en wolle wy mei boppesteande? Drewes (oerlis) 30 aug 2022, 18.54 (CEST)Beäntwurdzje[beäntwurdzje]
Ik nim oan dat it Martijn van Dijk om in fraachpetear oer Wikipedy te dwaan is en tink dat soks dan oan jo of oan Ieneach is as immen fan jim dêr nocht oan hat. Soe tink wol moai wêze, want sa kriget Wikipedy wat omtinken en dat is altiten wolkom. Mar jim moatte der sels ek niget oan ha fansels. --RomkeHoekstra (oerlis) 30 aug 2022, 19.25 (CEST)Beäntwurdzje[beäntwurdzje]
We soene sjen kinne wat er krekt wol. As de Fryske wikipedy wat mear omtinken kriget soe yndie moai wêze, want ik tink in hiel soad Friezen witte suver net as der in Fryske wikipedy is want de measten dy't ik ken rieplachtsje de Nederlânsktalige. Mar oan oare kant wol ik myn anonimiteit ek net bleatlizze. Kneppelfreed (oerlis) 30 aug 2022, 19.51 (CEST)Beäntwurdzje[beäntwurdzje]
@Drewes, Kneppelfreed, Mysha, FreyaSport, en RomkeHoekstra: Van Dijk hat ek al kontakt opnommen mei Wikimedia Nederlân, om't er mei ús gjin kontakt krije kinne soe. Ik haw jierren lyn ris gedoente hân mei Wikimedia Nederlân, dat dêr kenne se my, en sadwaande is dat fia-fia wer oer de e-mail nei my weromkeppele. Dat wie fan 'e middei om 17.40, dus in healoere nei't er syn berjocht hjir delset hie. Fûn ik wat foarbarich, mar op Frysktalige Wikipedy lês ik dat it projekt op 2 septimber 2002 úteinset is, dus hy sil syn stikje noch wol yn 'e krante fan 2 septimber o.s. hawwe wolle.
Sa'n stikje yn 'e krante soe moai wêze foar de Wikipedy, mar persoanlik haw ik der net folle nocht oan. Ik wol likemin as Kneppelfreed mei namme en tanamme yn 'e krante. No set er hjirboppe in e-mailadres del, mar as je him in mailtsje stjoere is jins namme daliks al bekend, teminsten, myn e-mail stiet op myn eigen namme en net op dy fan Ieneach fan 'e Esk. Is der ek ien yn ús fermidden dy't dêr neat om jout? Ieneach fan 'e Esk (oerlis) 30 aug 2022, 20.03 (CEST)Beäntwurdzje[beäntwurdzje]
Ik lês op Wikipedy:Parseberjocht dat Mysha de parsekontakten docht. Wit net hoe âld oft dy ynformaasje is, mar ik sil ris in berjochtsje op syn oerlisside sette. Ieneach fan 'e Esk (oerlis) 30 aug 2022, 20.11 (CEST)Beäntwurdzje[beäntwurdzje]
Ik haw hjir ris in nachtsje oer sliept en it yn my omgean litten, mar ik haw besletten dat ik yn elts gefal net oan it ynterview meiwurkje sil. Dus as der gjin oaren binne dy't Van Dijk fan tsjinst wêze wolle, dan moatte we it mar ôfsizze. Ieneach fan 'e Esk (oerlis) 1 sep 2022, 01.08 (CEST)Beäntwurdzje[beäntwurdzje]
Ik haw der ek net folle ferlet fan. Kreksa as Ieneach seit as ik him in email stjoere sil is daliks myn namme bekend en dat soe ik leaver net wolle. It muoit my tige, want de Wikipedy kin wol wat omtinken brûke, mar faaks is der in oare manier. --Kneppelfreed (oerlis) 1 sep 2022, 03.31 (CEST)Beäntwurdzje[beäntwurdzje]
@Kneppelfreed: As jo fierders wol belangstelling hawwe om oan it ynterview mei te wurkjen, soene jo ris besykje kinne mei de man yn kontakt te kommen fia Meidogger oerlis:Sinenwille, syn oerlisside hjirre op 'e Wikipedy. Ieneach fan 'e Esk (oerlis) 1 sep 2022, 22.00 (CEST)Beäntwurdzje[beäntwurdzje]
Ik haw op syn oerlisside frege wat er woe, dus mar even ôfwachtsje wat er wol. Kneppelfreed (oerlis) 3 sep 2022, 03.25 (CEST)Beäntwurdzje[beäntwurdzje]
Ik haw gjin idee wa at nei myn postadres stjoerd hat, mar ik hie it net sjoen. Ik wie ek wat drok hjir, dat ik hie it op dat stuit ek net dwaan kind. Myn namme stiet gewoan op myn meidogside, dat ik haw der net sa'n probleem mei. Wat ik sizze moat is wat oars: It liket dat it oansjen fan de Wikipedy koartlyn ferminbettert is. Wat is yn it miene de opfetting deroer? En it skynt wy binne 210 siden fuort fan ús feestke. Wolle wy dêr noch wat mei? Mysha (oerlis
@Mysha:, Ieneach hat in berjocht foar jo efterlitten op jo oerlisside. Jo kinne hjir ris sjen oer dat ynterview. Martijn fan de Ljouwerter Krante woe in ynterview dwaan. De measten fan ús fiele dêr net folle foar, want dat soe ús út 'e anonimiteit bringe. It leafst wol ik dat sa hâlde. Op Wikipedy:Parseberjocht stiet dat jo parseberjochten dogge. Soe dit wat foar jo wêze? --Kneppelfreed (oerlis) 16 nov 2022, 20.05 (CET)Beäntwurdzje[beäntwurdzje]
Ja de wikipedy hat in nij oansjen krigen. Dat is lykwols bûten ús om gien. Jo kinne by "ynstellings", rjochts boppe oan op it skerm it âlde oansjen wer ynstelle.--Kneppelfreed (oerlis) 16 nov 2022, 20.05 (CET)Beäntwurdzje[beäntwurdzje]
Lês der alles oer op dizze side ûnder it kopke The Vector 2022 skin as the default in two weeks?. Ieneach fan 'e Esk (oerlis) 16 nov 2022, 23.08 (CET)Beäntwurdzje[beäntwurdzje]

Mediatraining[boarne bewurkje]

Wikimedia Nederland wordt regelmatig benaderd door journalisten voor interviews of gevraagd te koppelen aan een of meerdere vrijwilligers om te interviewen over (Friese) Wikipedia, Wikimedia Commons, Wikidata... Ter voorbereiding bieden we deze Wikimedianen graag een mediatraining aan. De training zal ergens in het najaar plaatsvinden, circa 1 dag in beslag nemen en verzorgd worden door een extern bureau op het kantoor van Wikimedia Nederland in Utrecht. Mocht je interesse hebben om deel te nemen, wil je mij dan svp vóór 19 september een mailtje sturen (cox@wikimedia.nll)? Germien Cox (oerlis) 5 sep 2022, 12.39 (CEST)Beäntwurdzje[beäntwurdzje]

@Germien Cox: Een aanvraag voor een interview komt hier maar zo zelden voor (dit is de eerste keer in mijn tienjarige 'loopbaan' hier), dat ik vermoed dat er onder de gebruikers van de Wikipedy niet veel animo zal zijn voor deze cursus. Desalniettemin stellen wij, als ik even voor alle gebruikers mag spreken, het meedenken van Wikimedia Nederland in deze zaak zeer op prijs. Ieneach fan 'e Esk (oerlis) 5 sep 2022, 23.07 (CEST) Drewes (oerlis) 6 sep 2022, 12.25 (CEST), Kneppelfreed (oerlis) 6 sep 2022, 18.53 (CEST)Beäntwurdzje[beäntwurdzje]
Dank voor de snelle reactie. Mocht iemand zich bedenken hoor ik het graag en kijken we graag wat we kunnen doen. Germien Cox (oerlis) 13 sep 2022, 13.43 (CEST)Beäntwurdzje[beäntwurdzje]
As parsekontakt hie it in aardich idee west. Wêr hawwe jo sjoen, dat jo my net fine koenen? Hoe ek is it no wat let foar 19 septimber, en ik wit ek net at wy der, foar de iene kear yn 10 jier, jild foar hawwe. Mysha (oerlis) Mysha (oerlis) 16 nov 2022, 16.14 (CET)Beäntwurdzje[beäntwurdzje]
Ik haw in berjocht op jo oerlisside set. As it goed is, krije jo dan fia jo e-mail in melding: "Dy-en-dy hat in berjocht op jo oerlisside set". Sa giet it by my teminsten wol. Dat ik bin der fanút gien dat jo it berjocht krigen hiene, of oars dat jo hielendal net mear aktyf wiene. Ieneach fan 'e Esk (oerlis) 17 nov 2022, 23.45 (CET)Beäntwurdzje[beäntwurdzje]

Ferstjerren Elizabeth II[boarne bewurkje]

Goeiemoarn, @Drewes @Ieneach fan 'e Esk @Kneppelfreed @RomkeHoekstra Juster is Keninginne Elizabeth II ferstoarn, hjirmei ûntstie in sniebal effekt fan siden dy't oanpaste wurde moatte. Understeande de siden dy't ik fine koe, en sa goed as mooglik by de tiid brocht ha. En der binne nocht wat dingen dy't yn 'e gaten hâlden wurde moatte, dat ha ik tusken heakjes setten (). Is dit alles as binne der mear?

FreyaSport (oerlis) 9 sep 2022, 11.12 (CEST)Beäntwurdzje[beäntwurdzje]

@FreyaSport: Goeie. Neffens de BBC (sjoch hjirre) is William no prins fan Wales. Dat is ek wat en:Prince of Wales seit. Op en: hjit it artikel oer William no en:William, Prince of Wales. Fan itselde lekken in pak foar Catherine. Dêr moatte wy mar yn folgje, tink. Ik haw ek de fermelding op 'e side oer Cornwall oanpast en it steatshaad yn 'e ynfoboks en tekst by it Feriene Keninkryk. Fierder liket it leau 'k net sa gek. Ieneach fan 'e Esk (oerlis) 9 sep 2022, 22.59 (CEST)Beäntwurdzje[beäntwurdzje]
Ha alline, myn twifel as de titels fan de bêrn bygelyks George no ek fan Wales is, om't de Titel Prins fan Wales gjin erftitel is mar in geunst. Ik sjoch dat alle wiki's der by de bêrn ek fan Wales, fan makke ha mar dat soe wol ris in flater wêze kinne. de kommende dagen mar yn 'e rekken hâlde hoe't him dat ûntwikkelet.
FreyaSport (oerlis) 10 sep 2022, 10.31 (CEST)Beäntwurdzje[beäntwurdzje]
@FreyaSport: Ja, mar se skriuwe "George fan Wales", en net "George, prins fan Wales". Dêr sit him tink ik it ferskil. It is yn it gefal fan George en de oare bern dus gjin titel, mar in ferwizing nei de titel fan 'e âlden. Ieneach fan 'e Esk (oerlis) 11 sep 2022, 23.55 (CEST)Beäntwurdzje[beäntwurdzje]
Moat de List fan keningen fan Grut-Brittanje net de 'list fan steatshaden fan Grut-Brittanje' wêze? De oareheltes Mary van Teck, Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon esfh. en Camilla Parker Bowles wiene/is nammers ek keninginne.--RomkeHoekstra (oerlis) 13 sep 2022, 07.42 (CEST)Beäntwurdzje[beäntwurdzje]
@RomkeHoekstra: nee want de oarehelten falle ûnder de list Britske prinsen-gemaal en keninginnen-gemalinne.--Kneppelfreed (oerlis) 13 sep 2022, 18.08 (CEST)Beäntwurdzje[beäntwurdzje]
At sels ús meidoggers dêr oer twifelje, koe it dan net better fierders útskreaun wurde? Mysha (oerlis)

The Vector 2022 skin as the default in two weeks?[boarne bewurkje]

The slides for our presentation at Wikimania 2022

Hello. I'm writing on behalf of the Wikimedia Foundation Web team. In two weeks, we would like to make the Vector 2022 skin the default on this wiki.

We have been working on it for the past three years. So far, it has been the default on more than 30 wikis, including sister projects, all accounting for more than 1 billion pageviews per month. On average 87% of active logged-in users of those wikis use Vector 2022.

It would become the default for all logged-out users, and also all logged-in users who currently use Vector legacy. Logged-in users can at any time switch to any other skins. No changes are expected for users of these skins.

About the skin[boarne bewurkje]

[Why is a change necessary] The current default skin meets the needs of the readers and editors as these were 13 years ago. Since then, new users have begun using Wikimedia projects. The old Vector doesn't meet their needs.

[Objective] The objective for the new skin is to make the interface more welcoming and comfortable for readers and useful for advanced users. It draws inspiration from previous requests, the Community Wishlist Surveys, and gadgets and scripts. The work helped our code follow the standards and improve all other skins. We reduced PHP code in Wikimedia deployed skins by 75%. The project has also focused on making it easier to support gadgets and use APIs.

[Changes and test results] The skin introduces a series of changes that improve readability and usability. The new skin does not remove any functionality currently available on the Vector skin.

  • The sticky header makes it easier to find tools that editors use often. It decreases scrolling to the top of the page by 16%.
  • The new table of contents makes it easier to navigate to different sections. Readers and editors jumped to different sections of the page 50% more than with the old table of contents. It also looks a bit different on talk pages.
  • The new search bar is easier to find and makes it easier to find the correct search result from the list. This increased the amount of searches started by 30% on the wikis we tested on.
  • The skin does not negatively affect pageviews, edit rates, or account creation. There is evidence of increases in pageviews and account creation across partner communities.

[Try it out] Try out the new skin by going to the appearance tab in your preferences and selecting Vector 2022 from the list of skins.

How can editors change and customize this skin?[boarne bewurkje]

It's possible to configure and personalize our changes. We support volunteers who create new gadgets and user scripts. Check out our repository for a list of currently available customizations, or add your own.

Our plan[boarne bewurkje]

If no large concerns are raised, we plan on deploying in the week of October 3, 2022. If your community would like to request more time to discuss the changes, hit the button and write to us. We can adjust the calendar.

If you'd like ask our team anything, if you have questions, concerns, or additional thoughts, please ping me here or write on the talk page of the project. We will gladly answer! Also, see our FAQ. Thank you! SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talk) 22 sep 2022, 06.15 (CEST)Beäntwurdzje[beäntwurdzje]

@SGrabarczuk (WMF): Hello. I tried this new thing out and I have to say, I see some advantages but a lot more disadvantages. Question: you say we can get more time to discuss the changes, but is there an actual choice here between "Yes, let's do it" en "No, this is not for us so we're going to opt out and keep the old skin on this Wikipedia"? Because if we can't refuse the new skin, then there really is no sense in discussing things, is there? Ieneach fan 'e Esk (oerlis) 24 sep 2022, 21.42 (CEST)Beäntwurdzje[beäntwurdzje]
Hi @Ieneach fan 'e Esk. That's an excellent question. Thank you for that. The motivation of our team is to make this skin as the default across all the wikis eventually. We want to make that step in collaboration with the communities, just as we've been working with the communities for the past three years when building this skin. Because of that, we do take feedback into consideration, we can have a longer discussion now, although we don't do everything we're being asked for, and perhaps won't do everything you would ask us for. If individual users have specific needs, they may use gadgets and user scripts to adjust the skin. We provide support for those who maintain gadgets and user scripts. Users may also opt-out individually. If they use skins other than Vector, they will not see the change.
So in short, we can either:
  1. Have a longer discussion now and don't change the default skin yet or
  2. Change the default skin and continue working on it (because we will continue working on it anyway); and also
  3. Point 1 or 2 + you can configure the skin / opt-out.
What do you think? How does that sound to you? SGrabarczuk (WMF) (oerlis) 29 sep 2022, 19.44 (CEST)Beäntwurdzje[beäntwurdzje]
Hello @SGrabarczuk (WMF): Thank you for taking the time to answer my question. I already knew about the possibility for logged-in users to switch to another skin. That part of the info you posted here earlier was very clear. My question was about fywiki as a whole. I feel you're being a bit vague about it, but the key part of your answer, I think, is: "make this skin the default across all the wikis eventually". So the answer is: no, we (that is, fywiki as a whole) cannot opt out of this new development. We can delay it a bit, but eventually it will become the default here, too, whether the user community likes it or not.
That being so, I don't see any sense in delaying things. (Although, of course, I can't decide that on my own as I'm not the only administrator here.) In the last couple of days I've been reading some parts of the discussion about the new skin on the MediaWiki link you gave above, and I have to say, I agree with a lot of the criticism on the new skin there. Someone wrote "why are we catering for people too stupid or too lazy to change their window size", and that pretty well sums up my feelings about the new page width. Another thing I disliked very much about the new skin was that I couldn't find the tools at all that belong in the left sidebar. I didn't connect the 3 horizontal lines next to the Wikipedia logo to any sort of menu at all (is that a mobile phone thing? I don't do mobile phones) and had to dig through pages of text about the new features before it became clear to me that is where you had hidden all the tools. Also the fact that the paragraphs in the table of contents are no longer numbered en the fact that de connections to corresponding Wikipedias in other languages are hidden in such an awkward place, while I switch from Frisian to English to Dutch all the time, makes the new skin very unappealing to me. But I know for a fact that you (not you personally, but you at the Wikimedia Foundation Web team) have heard this all before, because I read it right there on the link you gave us. Apparently you (again, plural) didn't do anything with these criticisms, so I don't see how more time to discuss will change these things for the better.
I have to say, I feel very depressed about this whole thing. It is my opinion that the old skin was close to perfect before the change that gave only a preselection of the corresponding articles in other languages in the left sidebar (a feature which I therefore disabled as soon as I understood how to do that). I have read your rationale for what you are doing and I understand what you're trying to do, but I do not agree with it. I think you (the WFW team) are making a big mistake pushing these radical changes through. I will now change my preferences to keep the old layout, and I think most established long-time contributors will do the same. This will inevitably lead to a disconnect between the layout most contributors are working with en the layout readers (who are not logged in) will see when they visit Wikipedia. Ieneach fan 'e Esk (oerlis) 30 sep 2022, 01.30 (CEST)Beäntwurdzje[beäntwurdzje]
Hi again @Ieneach fan 'e Esk. Thank you for your volunteer time, especially since you took the effort and read our documentation. That's rare! :) I also appreciate that you're being clear about what you know and what you disagree with, or dislike.
I know that below, there's a lot to read and think of, so take your time. We will not make this skin the default this week. This is both because we're talking here, and because our team decided to make the change on a smaller number of wikis first.
Since you've mentioned different issues, I'll address these in a numbered list hoping that it could help us break down the discussion into smaller pieces.
  1. I'm sorry to read that you feel depressed. I believe that a more frequent communication is the only way to fix things! Subscribe to our newsletter and feel invited to any and all our discussions and events.
  2. Saying that we didn't do anything with the criticism is a very harsh judgement which I disagree with. I think there may be different opposing arguments. In the next days, could you perhaps think of any reasons why our reaction to criticism might have gone unnoticed or underestimated for you?
  3. "I feel you're being a bit vague about it" - this is because if there's a chance to talk and understand each other better, perhaps change something, we will do that.
  4. "The old skin was close to perfect before the change that gave only a preselection of the corresponding articles in other languages in the left sidebar" - we disagree about that, and this is perhaps why we disagree about some of the more detailed things. One of many explanations could be that you accepted some things from the beginning, and learned how to accept or configure other things. That's how tech-savvy Wikipedians operate. (That may have been how most viewers operated in 2010, too.) But that's not true for the current variety of viewers.
  5. "This will inevitably lead to a disconnect" - very true! Unfortunately, this disconnect currently exists. A simple example are tables in articles. Wikipedians think these look nicely with the TOC and infoboxes, but it only takes to have a screen with a smaller resolution to see something different. The same applies to many templates, portals, main pages. The objective for Vector 2022 is to address the most basic issues users have when interacting with the website. At the same time, 87% of users active on our "pilot wikis" use Vector 2022... although it also varies by wiki, and we're not sure yet what the reasons may be.
  6. Changing the window size - you disagree with our answer? Could you explain why?
  7. Tools in the left sidebar - first of all, we're moving these tools to the right side of the screen (learn more). These will be pin-able, so exactly the same as the TOC on the left side - will stay despite of scrolling.
  8. Three horizontal lines - I'm sorry you needed to check the documentation! That must have been irritating. I think it seems to be the best option (even if not everyone recognizes it). If you'd like to talk about the details, write on our talk page and ping Alex - AHollender (WMF) - our designer who makes decisions about these things.
  9. Numbering of the sections in the ToC - I strongly encourage you to go to our talk page on MediaWiki.org and create a section just about that. Of course, no hurry if you have better things to do. But Alex appreciates when users explain their needs and motivations. He needs that to understand what exactly should be done.
  10. Links to the language versions - Alex has come up with another idea, and I presented it on Russian Wikipedia some time ago. If you'd like to add anything to that topic, this section will be the best.
Thank you again. SGrabarczuk (WMF) (oerlis) 4 okt 2022, 02.44 (CEST)Beäntwurdzje[beäntwurdzje]
@SGrabarczuk (WMF): Well, thanks. But I didn't read everything. That would be a fulltime job, I think. My reactions to your points:
2. Well, let's agree to disagree then. Sure, there are opposing arguments to be made, but based on what I've read, the development team seems to have had its mind made up about the most fundamental issues before the discussion began. Issues like: do we actually need a new layout for Wikipedia? I haven't come across a 'smoking gun', so to speak, but I'm pretty sure nonetheless that these changes are mostly aimed at mobile phone usage. At the expense of other users. I strongly feel websites shouldn't cater to mobile phone users. It's a nice bonus when things can be arranged for them that don't impact other users, but their interests just shouldn't be the top priority.
3. I wrote I felt you were 'being a bit vague' because it really was a yes or no question. I like straight answers, even if they're not the outcome I'm hoping for. That's all I meant with that.
4. Well, yes. But that is always so, isn't it? Obviously if I had only come to Wikipedia after the new layout had been rolled out, I would never have missed the old one. I wouldn't call myself 'tech-savvy', though. I know just enough about computers to make problems worse, usually.
6. Your answer is: "Most users don't resize their browser windows or use browser plugins to improve the design of the websites they view. Wikis should be good-looking immediately, in their basic form." I don't disagree with this answer, that is actually the problem. You think this narrow text width looks good; I think it doesn't, and the fact that both sidebars are the same color as the background color beneath the text (white), instead of for instance gray, gives the new layout an unfinished look.
7. Well, that will be a big improvement at least. It will give the (currently useless) right sidebar a use, and, more importantly, it will take the toolbar away from the table of contents, which it is currently blocking when the toolbar is not collapsed.
8. The best option seems to me to leave the toolbar permanently uncollapsed en failing that adding the text "Toolbar menu" at the place where the menu is hidden.
9. This concern was already mentioned there, see the top of this section, where a user writes: "The removal of the numbering for paragraphs and their transformation into collapsible lists, will make the articles and discussions unreadable, as their structure will be completely unclear."
You mention several times that I should involve myself in the discussion about these things on Mediawiki's talkpages. I really don't want to do that, because those discussions go on forever, and, no offence, but frankly I've got better (or at least other) things to do with my time. Anyway, pretty much all the concerns I raised here, have been already mentioned in the Mediawiki discussions by other users, so my contributions would be superfluous. Ieneach fan 'e Esk (oerlis) 11 okt 2022, 12.25 (CEST)Beäntwurdzje[beäntwurdzje]

@Drewes en Kneppelfreed: Goeie. Ik wit net oft jimme dit wat folge hawwe, mar jimme moatte boppesteande al even lêze, want dizze feroaring kinne wy blykber net tsjinkeare. As jimme witte wolle hoe't de Wikipedy der fan nije wike ôf út komt te sjen, moatte jim mar even nei de Frânske Wikipedy gean, dêr is it al in skoftke sa. Nei myn miening binne dizze feroarings nearne goed foar, en it team dat de nije layout ûntwikkele hat, hat withoefolle krityk krigen, mar se sette har sin troch. We kinne in skoft útstel krije om oer de feroarings te diskusjearjen, mar de útkomst sil úteinlik itselde wêze. Neffens my hawwe wy dan neat om oer te praten, dat lit it dan nije wike mar gebeure, dat stel ik yn myn foarkarren de âlde layout wol yn. As jimme der oars oer tinke en àl útstel hawwe wolle, is no de tiid om dat oan te jaan. Ieneach fan 'e Esk (oerlis) 30 sep 2022, 01.37 (CEST)Beäntwurdzje[beäntwurdzje]

Dei @Ieneach fan 'e Esk, ja ik hie dy hiele sirkus ek al even in bytsje trochsjoen. It wurdt der yndie net better op, suver in stik minder. Ik kaam alris in pear kear op de Frânske Wikipedy en tocht fan wat is dit foar in suterich sjoch gedoch. It liket der yndie op dat we it net keare kinne, dus om it út te stellen, sil nei myn miening ek neat úthelje, dus soe ik sizze lit it mar komme. Kneppelfreed (oerlis) 30 sep 2022, 05.41 (CEST)Beäntwurdzje[beäntwurdzje]
Ik wurd der ek net bliid fan. Bin it mei jim iens, it wurdt der net better op. Benammen de ferwizings yn 'e lofter kolom nei oare wikipedias sil ik bot misse. Drewes (oerlis) 30 sep 2022, 18.53 (CEST)Beäntwurdzje[beäntwurdzje]
Wat my hjir noch it measte oan dwers sit is dat se sizze dat se alles yn gearwurking mei de Wikipedy-mienskip dwaan wolle, mar se dochs trochsette as dy mienskip oanjout de fernijings net hawwe te wollen. Ieneach fan 'e Esk (oerlis) 1 okt 2022, 00.58 (CEST)Beäntwurdzje[beäntwurdzje]
@Drewes: Ik wit net oft jo it sjoen hawwe, mar de ferwizings nei oare Wikipedia's steane yn 'e nije layout rjochts boppe-oan de side yn in útklapber menu, op deselde hichte as de titel fan it artikel. (Dus bgl. op fr:Europe werjûn as "292 langues".) Jo kinne trouwens by Ynstellings, hielendal rjochts boppe-oan njonken jo meldingen, yn it tabblêd Uterlik fêstlizze hokker layout jo persoanlik brûke wolle. Aansten nei de de ynfiering fan 'e nije layout kinne jo dêr dus "Fektor âld en bewend 2010" (de hjoeddeiske layout) oansette en dy sa foar josels yn 'e Fryske Wikipedy weromhelje. Dat moat ek yn ien kear mooglik wêze foar alle Wikipedyen, neffens wat ik hjirre lês (tabel, tredde kolom). (Fektor âld en bewend 2010 hjit yn it Ingelsk blykber "Vector legacy (2010)".) It probleem is, dan krije jo wol in oare layout as dat net ynlogde lêzers fan 'e Wikipedy foarset krije. Mar ja, dat is dan net oars. Ieneach fan 'e Esk (oerlis) 1 okt 2022, 00.58 (CEST)Beäntwurdzje[beäntwurdzje]

Ynterwiki links[boarne bewurkje]

Wa wit hoe je yn dizze nije úterlik de interwiki links taheakje? Ik doch it no mei in omwei fia wikidata dy't no noch fia de Nederlânske wikipedy te beriken is. FreyaSport (oerlis) 25 okt 2022, 14.45 (CEST)Beäntwurdzje[beäntwurdzje]

Ik wit net, mar ik haw him noch hieltyd op it âlde uterlik. Jo kinne dat by "ynstellings" rjochts boppe oan de skerm ynstelle. Kneppelfreed (oerlis) 26 okt 2022, 02.28 (CEST)Beäntwurdzje[beäntwurdzje]
Ik haw it oan de man frege dy't ús de fernijing brocht hat. Sjoch: Meidogger oerlis:SGrabarczuk (WMF)#Problems arising from implementation new skin. Ieneach fan 'e Esk (oerlis) 29 okt 2022, 00.26 (CEST)Beäntwurdzje[beäntwurdzje]

@FreyaSport: No, ik bin sels mar ris op ûndersyk útgien, want dy man antwurdet net mear, wol 'k leauwe. Earst ús de rommel opdringe en dan net thús jaan, dêr mei ik net oer. Wat jo fraach oangiet, as ik dizze fraach en it byhearrende antwurd goed begryp, liket it derop dat de funksje dêr't jo nei fernimme noch net beskikber is yn 'e nije layout. Ik begryp net wêrom't se it spul al útsutelje as it noch net gebrûksklear is. Ieneach fan 'e Esk (oerlis) 3 nov 2022, 00.20 (CET)Beäntwurdzje[beäntwurdzje]

Ik ha justerjûn noch útfûn dat de "Yntertaalkeppelings" lofts ûnder by de helpmiddels stiet. En dan komme de ferskillende talen rjochts boppe te stean. Dat diel fan it probleem is no oplost mar de oare ynterwiki's
FreyaSport (oerlis) 3 nov 2022, 08.49 (CET)Beäntwurdzje[beäntwurdzje]

Kategoryen[boarne bewurkje]

@Drewes @Ieneach fan 'e Esk @Kneppelfreed @Kening Aldgilles, Goeiemiddei, der foel my juster en hjoed noch wat nuvers op. Siden komme net altyd mear daalks yn de kategoryen te lâne, dy't al oan de siden tafoege binne. Dit liket my in flater yn it systeem. It foel my juster op by de side oer Martin Hersman en hjoed by de siden oer Grutte Priis Formule 1 fan Saûdy-Araabje 2022 en Grutte Priis Formule 1 fan Bachrein 2022, It kin oant in pear oeren duorje oant in side yn de kategory sichtber wurd. FreyaSport (oerlis) 1 nov 2022, 16.25 (CET)Beäntwurdzje[beäntwurdzje]

Apart, is my noch nea opfallen. Drewes (oerlis) 1 nov 2022, 17.09 (CET)Beäntwurdzje[beäntwurdzje]
@FreyaSport: Ik haw it no krekt even besocht, mar by my stie in side dêr't ik in kategory oan tafoege, dêrnei daliks yn dy kategory. Hawwe jo soms de kategoryside dêr't it om giet yn 't foar al iepen hân yn sokke gefallen? Miskien dat it eardere byld dan yn jo browser "hingjen" bliuwt. Besykje dit ris: set yn it finster boppe-yn jo browser dêr't it webadres stiet, efter dat adres oan: ?action=purge (gjin spaasje tusken it webadres en it fraachteken falle litte). Dan op enter drukke. Dan komme jo op in blanko side dêr't jo frege wurdt "purge the cache of this page?" Op OK klikke. Dêrnei komt de side dy't jo 'purged' hawwe werom en soe jo browser de nijste foarm fan dy side binnenhelje moatte. Ik doch dit wolris as de korrespondearjende siden yn oare talen net ferskine yn 'e lofter sidebar nei't ik in nij artikel oan in Wikidata-item fêstheakke haw. Wurket ek om 'e Haadside fan 'e Wikpedy by de tiid te bringen, mar dêr moat ik ornaris twa kear efterinoar purge foar't it effekt hat. Wit net wêrom. Dus as it foar jo net wurket, besykje it nochris. As it nei twa kear net goed is, moat der wat oars oan 'e hân wêze. Jo kinne dan besykje jo browsercache te leegjen (fan alle websiden dy't jo besykje, slacht jo kompjûter fan alles op, dy rommel ferstoppet de boel). As dat net helpt, wit ik it ek net mear. Ieneach fan 'e Esk (oerlis) 1 nov 2022, 18.14 (CET)Beäntwurdzje[beäntwurdzje]
@Ieneach fan 'e Esk tank foar jo wiidweidige antwurd. Nee ik hie de kategoryen net yn't foar iepen. Mar efkes yn 'e gaten hâlde de kommende dagen of't it faker foarkomt. By myn lêste side oan't no ta barde it net. FreyaSport (oerlis) 1 nov 2022, 19.52 (CET)Beäntwurdzje[beäntwurdzje]
It is my ek noch net oerkommen. Somtiden duorret it even in lyts skoftke ear't se ferskine, mar meastal komme se der wol gau op te stean. Kneppelfreed (oerlis) 1 nov 2022, 20.38 (CET)Beäntwurdzje[beäntwurdzje]

Râne ynfoboksen[boarne bewurkje]

@Drewes, Kneppelfreed, RomkeHoekstra, en FreyaSport: Goeie. Ik leau, ik haw it euvel mei de missende rânen om 'e ynfoboksen yn 'e nije layout oplost. Ik wit net oft jimme de nije layout brûke, mar sa ja, soene jim dan de kommende dagen der eefkes om tinke wolle oft alle ynfoboksen wol in tin griis rântsje rûnom hawwe dat har fan 'e rinnende tekst skiedt? As it hjir of dêr noch ûntbrekt, wol ik it graach hearre. By foarbaat tank. Ieneach fan 'e Esk (oerlis) 3 nov 2022, 00.03 (CET)Beäntwurdzje[beäntwurdzje]

Ik sil der op lette, it is gjin gesicht sûnder râne. FreyaSport (oerlis) 3 nov 2022, 08.51 (CET)Beäntwurdzje[beäntwurdzje]
Ik sil der ek om tinke. Fral op de mobyl is it gjin gesicht hoe't alles der no út sjocht. It noeget suver út om mar fan de Fryske op de Nederlânske side oer te gean (der't se noch net sa fier binne). --RomkeHoekstra (oerlis) 3 nov 2022, 09.42 (CET)Beäntwurdzje[beäntwurdzje]
Dat is dochs wol apart. Ik bin sels net ien dy't browset op 'e mobile tillefoan, mar ik hie begrepen dat dizze hiele operaasje eins opset wie om mobile-tillefoanbrûkers te skewielen. Ieneach fan 'e Esk (oerlis) 3 nov 2022, 11.25 (CET)Beäntwurdzje[beäntwurdzje]
@Ieneach fan 'e Esk Ik kom sakrekt de Berjocht:Ynfoboks plak yn Noarwegen tsjin dy hat noch gjin râne en ek noch net de mooglikheid foar in posysjekaartsje. FreyaSport (oerlis) 3 nov 2022, 12.06 (CET)Beäntwurdzje[beäntwurdzje]
@FreyaSport: Ik haw der in oare râne omhinne set. Ik hoopje dat dizze yn 'e nije layout wol sichtber is. Wat de posysjekaart oangiet, is it lykwols itselde ferhaal as mei de ynfoboks Stêd mei flagge: dit is gjin generike/universele ynfoboks, en it is my en Kneppelfreed net slagge om yn sokke oare ynfoboksen in posysjekaart yn te bouwen. It sil perfoarst wol kinne moatte, mar wy beskikke net oer de nedige know-how. Op 't heden is de iennichste oplossing om dizze ynfoboks op in side dan mar te ferfangen troch de Universele ynfoboks stêd. Ieneach fan 'e Esk (oerlis) 3 nov 2022, 12.13 (CET)Beäntwurdzje[beäntwurdzje]
Tige tank foar de râne, spitich dat it net slagget mei de posysjekaart, is it dan noch altyd handich om sa'n ynfoboks as Ynfoboks plak yn Noarwegen oan te hâlden. safolle ferskilt dizze ynfoboks net fan de universele ynfboks stêd. FreyaSport (oerlis) 3 nov 2022, 12.20 (CET)Beäntwurdzje[beäntwurdzje]
It is yn prinsipe in prima ynfoboks. Allinne de posysjekaart kinne wy der net yn brûke. Dan is it krekt oft je dêr no de prioriteit oan jouwe of net. Mar ik bin net fan doel om alle âlde ynfoboksen te ferfangen, hear. It taheakjen fan posysjekaarten moat mar ris by de tiid lâns. Ik rin allinne even de stêden nei dêr't ik yn 'e lêste pear jier mei dwaande west haw en dan leau ik it fierder wol. Ieneach fan 'e Esk (oerlis) 3 nov 2022, 12.31 (CET)Beäntwurdzje[beäntwurdzje]
@Ieneach fan 'e Esk Ik ha de ynfoboks omset nei ynfoboks generyk, dat wie yn dit gefal ek noch in opsje om't er oant no ta mar op trije siden brûkt wie. Hoopje dat er no noch folslein wurket.
FreyaSport (oerlis) 3 nov 2022, 14.30 (CET)Beäntwurdzje[beäntwurdzje]
Ik sil der oan tinke. Hawar ik haw it nije systeem noch net op myn laptop ynsteld dus hie it probleem noch net sjoen. Kneppelfreed (oerlis) 3 nov 2022, 18.14 (CET)Beäntwurdzje[beäntwurdzje]

Invitation to attend “Ask Me Anything about Movement Charter” Sessions[boarne bewurkje]

You can find this message translated into additional languages on Meta-wiki.

Hello all,

During the 2022 Wikimedia Summit, the Movement Charter Drafting Committee (MCDC) presented the first outline of the Movement Charter, giving a glimpse on the direction of its future work, and the Charter itself. The MCDC then integrated the initial feedback collected during the Summit. Before proceeding with writing the Charter for the whole Movement, the MCDC wants to interact with community members and gather feedback on the drafts of the three sections: Preamble, Values & Principles, and Roles & Responsibilities (intentions statement). The Movement Charter drafts will be available on the Meta page here on November 14, 2022. Community wide consultation period on MC will take place from November 20 to December 18, 2022. Learn more about it here.

With the goal of ensuring that people are well informed to fully participate in the conversations and are empowered to contribute their perspective on the Movement Charter, three “Ask Me Anything about Movement Charter" sessions have been scheduled in different time zones. Everyone in the Wikimedia Movement is invited to attend these conversations. The aim is to learn about Movement Charter - its goal, purpose, why it matters, and how it impacts your community. MCDC members will attend these sessions to answer your questions and hear community feedback.

The “Ask Me Anything” sessions accommodate communities from different time zones. Only the presentation of the session is recorded and shared afterwards, no recording of conversations. Below is the list of planned events:

  • Asia/Pacific: November 4, 2022 at 09:00 UTC (your local time). Interpretation is available in Chinese and Japanese.
  • Europe/MENA/Sub Saharan Africa: November 12, 2022 at 15:00 UTC (your local time). Interpretation is available in Arabic, French and Russian.
  • North and South America/ Western Europe: November 12, 2022 at 15:00 UTC (your local time). Interpretation is available in Spanish and Portuguese.

On the Meta page you will find more details; Zoom links will be shared 48 hours ahead of the call.

Call for Movement Charter Ambassadors

Individuals or groups from all communities who wish to help include and start conversations in their communities on the Movement Charter are encouraged to become Movement Charter Ambassadors (MC Ambassadors). MC Ambassadors will carry out their own activities and get financial support for enabling conversations in their own languages. Regional facilitators from the Movement Strategy and Governance team are available to support applicants with MC Ambassadors grantmaking. If you are interested please sign up here. Should you have specific questions, please reach out to the MSG team via email: strategy2030@wikimedia.org or on the MS forum.

We thank you for your time and participation.

On behalf of the Movement Charter Drafting Committee,

MNadzikiewicz (WMF) 7 nov 2022, 16.33 (CET)Beäntwurdzje[beäntwurdzje]

Apply for Funding through the Movement Strategy Community Engagement Package to Support Your Community[boarne bewurkje]

Berjocht:More languages

The Wikimedia Movement Strategy implementation is a collaborative effort for all Wikimedians. Movement Strategy Implementation Grants support projects that take the current state of a Movement Strategy Initiative and push it one step forward. If you are looking for an example or some guide on how to engage your community further on Movement Strategy and the Movement Strategy Implementation Grants specifically, you may find this community engagement package helpful.

The goal of this community engagement package is to support more people to access the funding they might need for the implementation work. By becoming a recipient of this grant, you will be able to support other community members to develop further grant applications that fit with your local contexts to benefit your own communities. With this package, the hope is to break down language barriers and to ensure community members have needed information on Movement Strategy to connect with each other. Movement Strategy is a two-way exchange, we can always learn more from the experiences and knowledge of Wikimedians everywhere. We can train and support our peers by using this package, so more people can make use of this great funding opportunity.

If this information interests you or if you have any further thoughts or questions, please do not hesitate to reach out to us as your regional facilitators to discuss further. We will be more than happy to support you. When you are ready, follow the steps on this page to apply. We look forward to receiving your application.

Best regards,
Movement Strategy and Governance Team
Wikimedia Foundation

MNadzikiewicz (WMF) 14 nov 2022, 17.25 (CET)Beäntwurdzje[beäntwurdzje]

Stee fan it mêd[boarne bewurkje]

At ik fan Koartlyn feroare nei de Oerlisside gean, kom ik by it begjin fan de side út. No, no't ik in skoftke net folle Wikipedy dien haw, is it sa dat ik tocht hie dat ik op de ein útkomme soe: op it lêste mêd. Sit ik dêr ferkeard yn, as is dêr eat minder yn wurden?

(Der is by my ek net in "Underwerp" oant der wier eat skreaun is. Gjin streekje, as neat.) Mysha (oerlis) Mysha (oerlis) 17 nov 2022, 09.55 (CET)Beäntwurdzje[beäntwurdzje]

Der is neat oan feroare, hear. It hat neffens my altyd sa west dat je boppe-oan 'e side komme en sels it ûnderwerp opsykje moatte. Om dat makliker te meitsjen kin der wol wer ris wat nei it argyf. Ieneach fan 'e Esk (oerlis) 17 nov 2022, 23.35 (CET)Beäntwurdzje[beäntwurdzje]
Tankewol. Mysha (oerlis)

Opportunities open for the Ombuds commission and the Case Review Committee[boarne bewurkje]

Hi everyone! The Ombuds commission (OC) and the Case Review Committee (CRC) are looking for members. People are encouraged to nominate themselves or encourage others they feel would contribute to these groups to do so. There is more information below about the opportunity and the skills that are needed.

About the Ombuds commission

The Ombuds commission (OC) works on all Wikimedia projects to investigate complaints about violations of the privacy policy, especially in use of CheckUser and Oversight (also known as Suppression) tools. The Commission mediates between the parties of the investigation and, when violations of the policies are identified, advises the Wikimedia Foundation on best handling. They may also assist the General Counsel, the Chief Executive Officer, or the Board of Trustees of the Foundation in these investigations when legally necessary. For more on the OC's duties and roles, see Ombuds commission on Meta-Wiki.

Volunteers serving in this role should be experienced Wikimedians, active on any project, who have previously used the CheckUser/Oversight tools OR who have the technical ability to understand these tools and the willingness to learn them. They must be able to communicate in English, the common language of the commission. They are expected to be able to engage neutrally in investigating these concerns and to know when to recuse when other roles and relationships may cause conflict. Commissioners will serve two-year terms (note that this is different from past years, when the terms have been for one year).

About the Case Review Committee

The Case Review Committee (CRC) reviews appeals of eligible Trust & Safety office actions. The CRC is a critical layer of oversight to ensure that Wikimedia Foundation office actions are fair and unbiased. They also make sure the Wikimedia Foundation doesn’t overstep established practices or boundaries. For more about the role, see Case Review Committee on Meta-Wiki.

We are looking for current or former functionaries and experienced volunteers with an interest in joining this group. Applicants must be fluent in English (additional languages are a strong plus) and willing to abide by the terms of the Committee charter. If the work resonates and you qualify, please apply. Committee members will serve two-year terms (note that this is different from past years, when the terms have been for one year).

Applying to join either of these groups

Members are required to sign the Confidentiality agreement for nonpublic information and must be willing to comply with the appropriate Wikimedia Foundation board policies (such as the access to non-public information policy and the Foundation privacy policy). These positions requires a high degree of discretion and trust. Members must also be over 18 years of age.

If you are interested in serving in either capacity listed above, please write in English to the Trust and Safety team at ca(_AT_)wikimedia.org (to apply to the OC) or to the Legal Team at legal(_AT_)wikimedia.org (to apply to the CRC) with information about:

  • Your primary projects
  • Languages you speak/write
  • Any experience you have serving on committees, whether movement or non-movement
  • Your thoughts on what you could bring to the OC or CRC if appointed
  • Any experience you have with the Checkuser or Oversight tools (OC only)
  • Any other information you think is relevant

The deadline for applications is 31 December 2022 in any timezone.

Please feel free to pass this invitation along to any users who you think may be qualified and interested. Thank you!

On behalf of the Committee Support team,

Fiktyf elemint yntrodusearre yn 1900[boarne bewurkje]

|Kategory:Fiktyf elemint yntrodusearre yn 1900| -> Oz-ium?

Mei oare wurden: Dit ferhaal hat grif in doel, allinnich kin ik net fine wêr it útskreaun is. Mysha (oerlis) Mysha (oerlis) 1 des 2022, 12.26 (CET)Beäntwurdzje[beäntwurdzje]

Parse[boarne bewurkje]

Efkes in berjocht fan de parske-ofsier: Ik haw besocht om kotakt te meitsjen mei dy Martijn van Dijk. Lykwols: Gjin sukses. Is der immen dêr't er in adres by efterlitten hat? Mysha (oerlis) Mysha (oerlis) 1 des 2022, 12.59 (CET)Beäntwurdzje[beäntwurdzje]

@Mysha, hy hat syn emailadres efterlitten, martijn.van.dijk (apenstaartje) mediahuisnoord.nl. Dat is alles dat we fan him hawwe. Kneppelfreed (oerlis) 1 des 2022, 17.52 (CET)Beäntwurdzje[beäntwurdzje]